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Pssst I was defending them [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I haven't heard anything bad about Crabtree as a person and the results are definitely showing. I'm sure he and his staff may have been caught off guard a time or two on things, but that can happen to the best and that is something that will get better.
Appreciated [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/getsmile.tmp007816300.gif[/img]
I think alot of people think because a coach is good to his/her players and is nice man, reflects on his coaching abilities. I am in no way saying a coach shouldnt be nice or befriend players, but i think with the way things have been ran over there in the past there should be a clear level authority and disciplin laid down. I just dont get that from him or the coaching staff in general. Just my opinion though. I think high school kids especially, who are used to being in a loosing program are more likely to take adavantage of situations when the coach is seen more as a buddy rather than discplinary figure, which a coach should be.
I think Richie Deel has done a great job over there though. The defense looked pretty good. He would be a great head coach for the program.
I think in a small environment, a coach has to be both. A friend and strict. You are too strict, and the players just say "blank you" and don't play. Why thats fine when you have unlimited resources, when you struggle to fill a team, you have to be fair, make them enjoy themselves, but also let them know there are rules. I mean I remember a few years ago nobody at Ervinton wanted to play, it didn't matter, they were going to lose anyhow. The ones who played, if more than 2-3 of them worked out, it was a miracle. Maybe Crabtree is too much of a buddy with them, but you have players on here who talked about how great Turner was to them, he could be a hard-arse but he was also good to them and most considered him a friend as well. The simple fact is, he's getting the kids out and the kids to work, so whatever he is doing, seems to be improving the situation.
I apologize if my comments offended you in any way. I never mentioned any coach by name and I never attacked anyones character. Fact is I worked at the same facility that Crabtree did before he got the job at Ervinton. Some of my co-workers said they joked with him when they found out he was going to be the coach at Ervinton about him having never even played in H.S. or never been a coach any where at all for that matter. They acted as if he laughed with them and didn't defend himself. That being said I was not there and did not hear the conversation so if he played then I'm sorry for repeating something that may not be fact. However, it is a well known fact that he became a head coach without ever being an assistant. That is a problem within itself. The times I have seen Ervinton play then seem to be an awfully un-organized group that needs some leadership. Now if Dotson is helping him this year thats a good thing and I'm sure things will improve. But some of the past stories I have heard about whats going on down there in regards to coaching would make an x's and o's guy cringe! One of the line coaches at Ervinton who went to school at Haysi never played varsity(i think he played in one game before quitting) and has never had a coaching job anywhere else, so how is he supposed to teach guys how to block? Bare in mind this guy is also a great guy and I mean that in the truest sense of the word but that doesn't help your tackle get his butt around or your guard execute a cut block on a LB. Good guys are great and great to have around for role models...you see those types involved with the football program in different ways(other than coaching) at alot of schools. Good coaches are a little harder to find though.
Chris graduated a year behind me and played football at JJK. You will never find a better person, and I am proud to call him a friend. As for the coaching aspect: 4 wins at Ervinton last year was a feat. This year I look for more wins and a shot at the CD title. If he wins the CD title at EHS, you'd think he'd be a cinch for COY.
This reply is for Charlie Hustle as well. Biggamejames, you did't offend me, you need to get your facts straight before mouthing off. Crabtree didn't apply for the head coach job, he was asked to take the job. I think it would have been great if he could have been an assistant somewhere before Ervinton. But I don't believe he had much of a choice. Crabtree is a nice guy and he is good to his players but he is tough on them. Again, ask the players how rough he is or if he is too buddy-buddy. I have been to the games and watched some of the practices. It is easy to talk on here about how the coach should be this or that. Is it sour grapes on your end? Were you or your spouse supposed to get the coaching job instead of Crabtree? As for Ritchie Deel, I am sure Coach Crabtree is grateful for all the help he is getting this year. It is one thing to disagree with a coach and another thing all together in trying to discredit someone. I usually don't reply on this sports forum or any other but after reading some of the garbage that is being thrown around here today, I had to respond.
Best I know, Crabtree wanted to get into coaching. I can't say this is gospel but he wanted to help at Clintwood, and I think that he was going to do some coaching (Little League, JV or such) but the Ervinton job opened, nobody wanted it, and he took it. Sure he's had some mistakes but he's learning and getting better in a situation that nobody else wanted.
I don't know the man, but your right some assistant experience and such would have been tremendously helpful. I just don't think he has a great football mind, or a way of projecting it to his troops I guess. When you have a player making your defensive calls, it shows that you don't have much control, or knowledge, or how to run a team IMO.
Chang..........it sucks you can accept people's opinions. I mean i have seen them play. They are very unorganized. While they may be better than they have bene in the past, in my opinion they still arent very good. Like i said, sorry you can or wont accept that.
Hey, opinions are great, everybodys got one, everybodys entitled to one! [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]If you think you can do better at coaching Ervinton football, apply for the job.
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This reply is for Charlie Hustle as well. Biggamejames, you did't offend me, you need to get your facts straight before mouthing off. Crabtree didn't apply for the head coach job, he was asked to take the job. I think it would have been great if he could have been an assistant somewhere before Ervinton. But I don't believe he had much of a choice. Crabtree is a nice guy and he is good to his players but he is tough on them. Again, ask the players how rough he is or if he is too buddy-buddy. I have been to the games and watched some of the practices. It is easy to talk on here about how the coach should be this or that. Is it sour grapes on your end? Were you or your spouse supposed to get the coaching job instead of Crabtree? As for Ritchie Deel, I am sure Coach Crabtree is grateful for all the help he is getting this year. It is one thing to disagree with a coach and another thing all together in trying to discredit someone. I usually don't reply on this sports forum or any other but after reading some of the garbage that is being thrown around here today, I had to respond.
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Listen pal I apologized so chill...if the guy had played ball before then he should have responded likewise when his co-workers were laughing at him on the basis of getting a head coaching job having never played or assisted. I highly doubt that he was just asked out of the blue to take a coaching job with no prior experience if he had not expressed some kind of interest. If indeed it happened that way then whoever asked him should be fired themselves or maybe they were family or something. You don't just go out on the street and start asking any joe schmoe to be a head coach even if you can't find anybody who wants it. You say he didn't have a choice? I don't know of anybody thats ever been forced to take a coaching job if they didn't want it. Look I just call it like I see it...if you don't like it thats your problem. I don't think I'm the only one who sees it that way on here. You seem to be the one in the minority. I didn't bash the guy's character or integrity...from what I know of him he is a nice guy. All I'm going on is what football knowledge I have and what I see happening on the field when they play. Its not all about discipline either...it seems to be more about football IQ in general. Thats my opinion...like it or lump it.
As far as telling him face to face? Thats not my job...wouldn't matter if I did, I'm not the Athletic Director down there. I'm not even an Ervinton fan so why should I care if they are doing a poor job coaching down there? When I played I told Coach Colley on numerous occasions when I disagreed with a certain play call and his response was usually something like a smirk followed by "well just run what you want then." If it worked he smiled, if it didn't he threw his clipboard. But as far as telling other coaches what they should do, don't really see that as my duty...can I discuss? Well yeah thats why they call this a discussion board. Its not meant to discredit others, its just meant to post opinions and share discourse...if you like them fine, if you don't then thats fine too. Nothing said on here can be taken as the is all, end all of the world of football. In other words, don't take everything to heart.
Sour grapes you say? Why would I have sour grapes? I don't work in the school system and never have. I have never applied for any coaching job. My spouse?...lol she couldn't coach her way out of a paper bag. She thinks a fullback is the opposite of a thong, lol.
I think anytime a person can have a positive affect not only one a program but a kid then they have done a great job. From the looks of things regardless of what people think about the coach he has put them into a position where people are actually talking about them. So in my opinion thats a compliment in itself.
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I think anytime a person can have a positive affect not only one a program but a kid then they have done a great job. From the looks of things regardless of what people think about the coach he has put them into a position where people are actually talking about them. So in my opinion thats a compliment in itself.
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Well I think thats not giving enough credit to the kids. This is the most talent they've had down there in about 20 years or so. Anything less than a 5-5 record with the weakness of their schedule and the pretty decent talent they have would be a disappoint even if bugs bunny was the coach.
You need to chill! If you want the whole story behind the coaching job, ask Crabtree or let it go.
I dont know anything about Ervington, just from what i read on here. Im not discrediting anyone. Im just saying the Head Coach and his staff have been questioned alot on here. And im saying just to even be thrown in an argument like this must mean they are doing something right.
Talent is overrated alot of times in high school. Dont get me wrong talent helps alot but take a look at the Kelly teams in the late 90's. They had talent and until Saunders took over they never really played to their capabilties.
"If you want the whole story behind the coaching job, ask Crabtree or let it go."
Says who? I'm football fan and observer...I can say what I want and so can you. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion. If I said all the Ervinton coaches were drunks or something that would be different. All I'm saying is what I have saw. That may turn out to be different this year...we'll see. From what you are saying anytime we observe a team that doesn't appear to be well coached we should all call the coach up and let him know. That seems a bit ridiculous to me. If I watch the Cowboys this week and Parcells looks like an idiot am I supposed to go down to Texas stadium and let him know? Listen Chong or Chang or whatever your name is...I don't know if he's your dad or something but you need to get a little more thick skinned.
Previously at Ervinton, Mike Setzer was the coach. Great guy, most people like him. Maybe there is more talent coming through Ervinton now than when he was there, but there is also more players coming out. Now to me, bottom line, that's a step in the right direction, no matter what. Its hard for anybody to win with 15 players. Maybe the guy isn't a great head coach yet, but maybe Ervinton doesn't need a great head coach, they need someone who can motivate them and get people out and at least trying. When you're a team who is expected to win, coaching can make a huge difference, close games, etc. When you're kind of downtrodden, getting bodies out and people motivated is a huge key.
Great coach or not, he's got more people out and more people working there, so whatever he's doing, appears to be what they need. Maybe him not always being prepared will cost them a game or two, however maybe him having an obviously positive impact on their numbers will put them in a game or two they wouldn't have been previously and get them a win or two they might not have.
I am fairly confident that when Setzer left, it was briefly discussed of doing away with the football program at Ervinton because they had like 15 boys at that point, and nobody was wanting to coach them. Crabtree was at a loss, no question, he was definitely over his head, but he's starting to learn to tread water and keep his head floating. Under the circumstances, that's huge upswing.
I pretty much agree with what you said overrall rock...i might have been taken out of context a little because their staff doesn't seem to be on the up an up as far as strategy and x &o's go...but we all know that it takes more than that at Ervinton...you do have to be somewhat of a recruiter to even get kids out to play and he seems to be doing well in that aspect.
Still though, just because they are better than they were, still doesnt mean they are good. I think while they may win some games it just goes to show that this area has little overall talent when it comes to football.
Although your words come across a little harsh. I do agree that the level of competition is down. As well as size. You would think in the age of supplements and vitamins that kids would be bigger and stronger than the ones before them not the other way around. After watching a couple of the jamborees and scrimmages some of the kids could pass for peanut players. So obviously its not something one school is doing that another school is not. Other than PV, where they obviously have more to pick from, the average size of the kids seem to have dropped.
I don't really agree with that Hustle because you have to look at the size of their school. They are one of the smallest schools in the state. If you compare them with other schools their size on average they have as much if not more talent than some of the others. They usually have more skilled personnel than teams like st. paul, hurley or twin springs but still often get beat by those schools.
Even pv doesn't seem to have the horses they used to have.
If they had that kind of talent then they wouldnt consistently be getting beat year in and year out by these other smaller schools. While i will put alot of the blame on coaches for not taking control of a program, the players also have to be held accountable. You still have to tackle, catch and throw. I think a better word to use is potential. Pound has had potential for the last 5 years but they have squandered it. Coeburn has potential and like wise have squandered it.
The talent level in our area isn't even remotely near what it has been in the past, and it is reflected in the futility of our beloved LPD over the last several years when it comes to state championships. Some of those PV teams as well as Appy teams in the 90's would have beaten this year's LPD best by at least 21 IMO.
I honestly think that todays best teams would be lucky to play withing 21 points of those teams backup players. They were bigger faster and stronger. Not to mention those teams as well as some of the other LPD teams player with a swagger, confidence and toughness that just isnt present in the teams right now.
Work ethnic isn't there anymore it seems. This is the Playstation Generation, and kids would rather be at the movies or chatting on the net or cell phone instead of in the weightroom.
swagger, confidence and toughness
when Burton shows those qualities they get slammed for it. [img]/LDPforum/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
My senior year we played the LPD champion(Coeburn) in the Region D championship and their line averaged about 270-280 across the board. They were the size of some D-1 college teams. Their fullback was about 230 and their tailback(Mike Hamm) went about 215. A team like that would crush about any team in the area nowadays outside of Richlands, plain and simple.
He isn't my dad. All I am saying is(since this is a local team and not the Cowboys)if you want the whole story, so you can get your facts straight, talk to the man.
Regardless of what everyone else thinks about those qualities. I think those qualities are a must for any program that wants to win over a period of time.
My philosophy on football is the same as Patton thought about war. Always be on the offensive. Hit them before they hit you. Beat them as bad as you can so it will not only put fear in them, as well other who oppose you. Of course im not comparing war and football but the same mentality is the same.+-
If I see him and think about it then I may...if not then it doesn't really cause me to lose sleep. There is always more to any story than meets the eye...not questioning that. As far as what I've seen on the football field, my facts are straight.
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Regardless of what everyone else thinks about those qualities. I think those qualities are a must for any program that wants to win over a period of time.
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I agree 100%. it is when they start to win that others get jealous and start calling then other names.
Here's my opinion...if anyone doesn't like it they "can let it go"...Ervinton was 10x's better when Setser was there. From what I've seen from the Ervinton coaching staff the last few years they couldn't find their [censored] with both hands. If anyone from the EHS staff would like to speak with me, I will be at every Clintwood football game, sitting on the 50 yd line. I'll have a t-shirt on, shorts, and tattoo's on both legs. About 30 years old.
Disclaimer...This is not saying anything bad about the above as people. They may be great people. I just hope they aren't hoping to make a living off what they're doing.
lol...i echo those sentiments
I didn't read the whole thread, but looking at the paper Ervinton has a big kid to build on. Yeah, one doesn't make a team, but at this level he can close up one side if the tight end is on the other one.
See Ironlung, I can't agree. I think the number of kids coming out and the fact that they have won a few games shows more than maybe being the best team for X's and O's. I mean sometimes it takes a different beast to succeed somewhere. I'll agree with you that the 15 men on Setser's team was probably better fundamentally coached, but there is a lot to be said for getting bodies out there. If he's making it fun, I think last year what was it, they didn't work out with sleds but was dragging tires or something (I can't remember, I recall reading about it but its vague), and some of the kids were talking about how it seemed more fun, they enjoyed themselves and practice.
I mean today when there are so many options and kids have disposable income (lots do), to get them to sacrifice time, energy and effort is a task. Particularly in a no-win environment. So if they aren't maybe as refined as other teams, which I don't think anybody would argue with, does it really matter? Would you rather be the most prepared 0-10 team in the state or a team that may not always know what to do but you're always there and busting your hump going 4-6? With the numbers they had or have, maybe there is a bit over-practicing and hammering things in over and over had an adverse affect, instead of helping them win.
At the end of the day, results are what any coach is measured by. I mean we have someone *cough Burrhead* who quesions Jimbo and his success or lack of title success with some very talented Burton teams.
It goes down to something everybody on here has said before. Would you rather take an ugly win or a pretty loss?
Also though right now Ervinton has their best athlete in the school since either Brad McCoy or football wise Johnny Gaby. They are also playing a much weaker schedule than what they did with Setzer at the helm. When Mike was coaching they didn't have but maybe one, or two players who could have played at another district school over his what 6 years as head coach.